Re: [A12n-Collab] Combining diacritics, type them as if they were dead keys? (GTK+, X.Org)

["Andrew Cunningham" <andrewc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, June 30, 2008 6:58 pm, Simos Xenitellis wrote:

> (I am referring to having the XKB layouts/compose sequences
revamped so
> that users will be able to type the base character
last in the sequence.
> I am not referring to systems like SCIM,
KMFL, etc).
> 
why not just replace xkb with a smart input
system? Since if xkb were to go down this path it would need to be able to
handle various scenarios:

assuming the diacritics belong to
different combining classes:

 <dead key 1> <dead key
2> ... <letter>
= <precomposed char 1>
= <base
character> <combining diacritic 1> <combining diacritic
2>
= <base character> <combining diacritic 2>
<combining diacritic 1>
= <precomposed char 2>
<combiing diacritic 2>
= <precomposed char 3>
<combining diacritic 1>


> I am referring to the
cases that no precomposed characters exist,
> therefore the output
would have to be "<base character> <combining
>
diacritic one> <combining diacritic 2> ...", and what I
suggest is
> 
> <combining diacritic 1>
<combining diacritic 2> ... <letter>  produces
>
<base character> <combining diacritic one> <combining
diacritic 2> ...
> 
> Perhaps this would have been
clearer if I had written from the start
> that letter=base
character.
> 
> Compose sequences with dead keys, which
produce precomposed characters,
> remain as there have been. For
example,
> 
> 
> The idea here is to add compose
sequences such as
> 

i assume that people used to
deadkeys would like such features, but never really say the value or
benefit of deadkeys, they seem to be anti-intuitive. the way a person
writes, the way data is stored, its easier to teach someone new to
computers to type the diacritic after the vowel rather than before the
vowel. At least that's been my experience doing some training in the
community sector.

> 
> In technical terms, it is
possible to add compose sequences in Xorg that
> produce more than
one character (base-character, combining-diacritic-1,
>
combinding-diacritic-2, ...).
> Such compose sequences do not
exist yet, though it is possible to add.
> We would not have to do
any additional coding, but just update the XKB
> layouts and
compose sequences.
> In addition, it is also possible to get GTK+
support such compose
> sequences as well.
> 

could be interesting

> The reason why we would consider
updating our XKB layouts to support the
> order that the base
character is typed at the end in compose sequences,
> is to make
it easier and more usable for the users.
> Now, whether it
actually makes it easier for the users is an issue for
>
debate.
> I do not know, and this is something I am asking.
>>

It depends on whether the keyboard layouts are
intended just for linux or for other operating systems as well.

It would not make sense forcing people to use different layouts on
different operating systems. So there is an issue of interoperability and
consistency in keyboard layouts across operating systems.

>> what other features would such a keyboard system have?
> As we would be updating the layouts and more importantly the
compose
> sequences, there are no new features per
sé.

sounds interesting

>> you'd
have to have multiple layouts, assuming the project builds for
>> xkb and win32 keyboard model (using MSKLC).
> I am not
familiar with how MSKLC behaves when using combining
> diacritics.
How does it respond when compose sequences with combining
>
diacritics require the base character typed at the end?

it
doesn't


-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Research and
Development Coordinator
Vicnet
State Library of Victoria
Australia

andrewc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx